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Post by nortonjohn on Nov 25, 2023 15:19:04 GMT
All, I'm trying to help a friend with his new to him Flying Flea. We have been looking for a wiring diagram for the early 50's model with an external coil.
He can't get it to spark and needs to sort out the wiring to figure out what is or in this case isn't going on.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Norton John aka John in Texas
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Post by buttybach1932 on Nov 26, 2023 20:41:37 GMT
Hi John From your description I do not think that it is a Flying Flea. It's either the early 1950s 125cc RE2 or the slightly later 150cc Ensign. Both of these models use a Miller generator with two lighting and one ignition primary coil. The HT coil is mounted externally. As with all these 'energy transfer' type ignitions the magnets and pole shoes need to be positioned to give maximum flux density when the contact breaker 'breaks' to give a good spark. From the Hitchcock Motorcycles 'Online Parts Books' the ignition coil is a 6 volt Lucas Part No: LU45152B. I have a 1950s Lucas Book but this Part Number does not appear in it. As it is powered from the generator coil, I presume that it is an AC type ignition coil so you should be able to fit an ignition coil made for an old two stroke Trail Bike or Moped. But not the later electronic ignition type. Attached below is an exploded view of the Miller Generator. The rotor and stator look very similar to the ones used on later Mk2 and early Mk3 LE Velocette's but the Velo has coil ignition. A more modern AC coil will probably only have one low tension wiring connection. The wiring of these ignition systems always appears odd to me but on the Triumph 'Energy Transfer' systems the contact breaker and HT coil are wired in parallel off the ignition primary coil. The other end of the ignition primary coil, the contact breaker and the HT coil body are all earthed to form a complete circuit. Regards Butty Bach   |
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Post by buttybach1932 on Nov 26, 2023 20:46:59 GMT
Hi John You may find the information attached below helpful for your friends Royal Enfield ignition problems. It's an article from 'Motor Cycling' dated January 1957 and it covers the engine for the Royal Enfield 150cc Ensign, but the 125cc RE2 is virtually identical. Regards Butty Bach    |
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Post by buttybach1932 on Nov 27, 2023 15:30:59 GMT
Hi John I have checked a couple of different machines to see if their 'Energy Transfer' ignitions are wired the same way. I have plenty of info on the BSA Bantam Bushman which uses a Wipac Series 114, 6 pole alternator. One of the six alternator coils feeds a Lucas 3ET energy transfer ignition coil. The contact breaker points and ignition coil are wired in parallel as per the Triumph Cub and Triumph Twins. I also checked a Raleigh RM12 moped and attached is a copy of the wiring diagram. As you can see the contact breaker points and energy transfer ignition coil are wired in parallel. I hope that the information helps your friend to get his Royal Enfield running properly. Regards Butty Bach  |
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Post by nortonjohn on Nov 28, 2023 13:34:19 GMT
My friend wired in a 6v battery and got plenty of spark. He then checked the flywheel and the magnets are weak. My friend has joined the RE Flying Flea forum and from the pictures they say it is an Ensign and a 150cc. The mystery continues.
I will forward your information. I doubt that he will be able to act upon it for a while, he lives at 7,000 feet and has been getting snow.
Thank you for your help and advise.
John
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Post by nortonjohn on Nov 29, 2023 22:12:03 GMT
 Butty, You were correct in thinking that my friends' bike is a Ensign. He checked the bore and that matches the specifications for a 150cc He sent me a picture of the bike. |
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Post by buttybach1932 on Nov 30, 2023 12:49:59 GMT
Hi John From the photograph your friends bike appears to be a 1953 or 54 125cc RE2. The 150cc Ensign has rear suspension. A swinging arm, controlled by plunger type springs and a different shaped tool box. Your friends bike looks fairly original except for the front mudguard and the missing exhaust. I have done a bit more digging about the ignition system. In the Flying Flea manual it gives details of the magnetic timing when the contact breaker points break. There is no mention of the setting in the later RE2 and Ensign manual. Presumably because you cannot see the relationship of the magnet pole shoes to the ignition primary coil when you are setting the contact breaker points. So you just have to rely on setting the contact breaker gap accurately at 0.015" and the ignition timing at 3/16" ( 30° ) before TDC. Also note that the HT voltage is fairly low so the spark plug gap should be set to 0.015" to 0.018". You may get a spark with a wider gap at atmospheric pressure but under engine compression you need a higher voltage to create a spark. With regard to the strength of the magnets in the flywheel. In the Flying Flea manual it states that there is one strong magnet and five weaker magnets. The strong magnet is for the ignition and the five weaker magnets are for the lighting. There is no information about the magnets for the RE2 and Ensign Miller flywheel, but I know Wipac also used strong and weaker magnets in some of their flywheel magneto's. I have found a wiring diagram for the RE2 and Ensign ignition. It shows that the contact breaker points are wired in series with the ignition coil. However if the coil is not the original or it is faulty, it would probably be better to fit a an 'Energy Transfer' type coil and the points would have to be wired in parallel as per the attached diagram. At our regular fortnightly BTSC meeting yesterday I had a chat with one of our members who used to own a Flying Flea. When he purchased the bike the internal HT Coil was faulty. As he could not find a good replacement, he stripped the wiring off the coil former and rewound it by hand as an ignition power coil using 20 gauge varnished wire. I asked how many turns he used but he did not keep a count and just did as many as would fit. He used an early Honda Cub HT coil and his ignition problems were solved. Hopefully the above information is of some use to your friend. Regards Butty Bach    |
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Post by buttybach1932 on Nov 30, 2023 16:53:18 GMT
Hi John I had a look in the VMCC book that they wish they had never published, because it gives loads of information to produce fakes. There are not many post war Enfield two strokes in the book, but it appears that the engine and frame numbers should match. A 1953 - 54 bike should have numbers in the high 30,000's to low 40,000's Attached is a picture of a 1953 RE2. Your friends bike may be fitted with a 150cc Ensign engine. Or it may be possible to fit the 150cc barrel piston and head on the 125cc engine like you can with 1955 on BSA Bantams. Regards Butty Bach  |
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