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Post by 1951superlux on May 2, 2024 19:38:18 GMT
Does anyone know anything about the Villiers 11F engine? It has the same head as the 2F but otherwise very little resemblance to other F series engines: alloy barrel, reed valve into the crankcase, 'bacon slicer' flywheel. Serial number prefix is 199E ... would that date it to around 1962?
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Post by buttybach1932 on May 6, 2024 17:58:44 GMT
Hi 1951superlux
I have had a look through all my Villiers information and there is no mention of an 11F engine. The last 'F' engine that is mentioned is the 9F which was a high compression engine with S19 carburettor that was used for Kart racing.
Do you have any photographs of the engine that you could post ?
Does it have the two speed gearbox like the 6F ?
What kind of ignition system does it have ?
Could it be an updated Kart racing engine introduced for the 100cc fixed gear class. I will have a chat with one of our local members who raced a Villiers 9E engined Kart and see if he knows anything about Villiers 100cc Kart engines.
Regards
Butty Bach.
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Post by 1951superlux on May 6, 2024 18:56:28 GMT
Do you have any photographs of the engine that you could post ?   Does it have the two speed gearbox like the 6F ? What kind of ignition system does it have ? Could it be an updated Kart racing engine introduced for the 100cc fixed gear class. No gearbox. It's not been dismantled so I don't know exactly what's behind that flywheel. It seems to have been designed for light weight and the reed valve suggests low-speed torque was a priority. |
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Post by buttybach1932 on May 8, 2024 9:40:40 GMT
Hi 1951superlux
Thanks for the photographs. I have spent some time studying them and looked on the internet for information on 1960s 100cc Karts. There is loads of information on the 210cc Class Karts with Villiers 9E and 9E based Upton engines but nothing on Villiers 100cc Karts.
The 11F engine is an odd beast. The four bolt mounting is typical of the mounting system used on 100cc Karts but the engine ID plate would be underneath when the engine was fitted. I am not convinced that the bacon slicer flywheel in original. There is no way of starting the engine and it could possibly have had a pull cord starter where the flywheel is fitted.
Also the drive side mainshaft is very long to just fit a drive sprocket, so it could possibly have been fitted with some form of centrifugal clutch.
Finally the square shaped lump that comes off the side of the ignition housing is intriguing. The other odd item is the hole on the corner of the reed valve mounting cavity. Is it a crankcase pressure connection for a Tillotson type pumper carburettor or an oil feed. I would have to strip it just to see what is inside.
I suppose it could be a prototype engine to use in a small scooter where it was underslung mounted under a pressed steel frame with a variable gear belt drive similar to a Triumph Tina. However I think its more likely to be a lightweight industrial engine for something like a heavy duty chainsaw or a Kart engine.
More research needed.
Regards
Butty Bach
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Post by buttybach1932 on May 8, 2024 14:25:06 GMT
Hi 1951superlux I have been trawling through Vintage Kart Websites with no luck but I have found a couple of adverts for 100cc Harper Vincent engines. They appear to be Vincent Amanda Water Scooter engines shorn of their cooling cowls. The general engineering side of Vincent's went into receivership in 1959 probably due to the failure of the Amanda Water Scooter and Harper Engines Ltd of Stevenage took over the remnants of the company. There must have been a lot of unsold engines and parts so they sold some of them off as Kart engines. I have also seen them used in Motor Mowers. Regards Butty Bach   |
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Post by buttybach1932 on May 15, 2024 16:29:45 GMT
Hi 1951superlux
I spoke to an old BTSC member today who raced Karts in the 1960s and showed him your photographs of the Villiers 11F engine. He is fairly certain that the Villiers 9F and 11F engines were on the list of homologated engines for the 100cc Class in the early 1960s. He is going to look out some old paperwork for our next meeting two weeks today. He also suggests contacting Tim Norwood of the 'British Historic Kart Club' via their Facebook page.
Finally he said the 11F engine must be as rare as rocking horse manure because he cannot remember anyone running one.
Regards
Butty Bach
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Post by buttybach1932 on May 29, 2024 16:54:00 GMT
Hi 1951superlux My friend dug out a copy of the 1969 RAC Kart Regulations and attached are a couple of pages that show which engines were 'Permitted' for each Class. As you can see the Villiers 6F, 9F, 10F and 11F engines are 'Permitted' engines for Class I Junior and Class I. So we now have another mystery engine the 10F although it is possible that it could be a handed version of the 11F as some Class IV Super Karts used two 100cc engines. My friend states that he cannot remember anyone using the Villiers 10F and 11F engines. He used a Montesa M100 engine in Class I. The stated output of the Montesa M100 engine was 12 BHP at 7,000 RPM with maximum engine revs of 10,000 RPM. With a bit of tuning he estimated that they got about 14 BHP. There was no way the Villiers engine could approach that kind of power level so no-one used them. The Villiers 10F and 11F engines may not have been designed specifically for Kart racing, they may have been a light industrial engine to use in industrial chainsaws and small rotary mowers which were becoming popular in the 1960s. I had a look on the 'Old Lawnmower Club' website but there is no mention of a mower using one of these engines. Also in the 'Permitted Engine' list for Class IV Super is a Villiers Starmaker 200 and a Starmaker-Kent. Two more Villiers engines that I have never come across. Regards Butty Bach   |
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Post by 1951superlux on May 30, 2024 7:42:32 GMT
Brilliant! I have forwarded that to the engine's owner ... though I don't think it will inspire him to take up kart racing.
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