Villiers Flywheel Magneto

As I'm just starting to work on my 47 ML James this will be very helpful when I get to that point.  
Is there any replacements for the lighting coils?  Villers Service doesn't list them, and my little James will need them! 


Nortonjohn 

I sent Villers an email over the weekend about this very subject. As of today I haven't seen a reply. 
Nortonjohn

You are a little closer than I am. Calling from Texas with the phone plan I have can get a bit expensive.  If this keeps up, I'm going to have to explore getting a different phone plan!
Norton John

Hi Norton John

Are you sure that the Villiers lighting coils have failed. Whilst the Villiers HT coils fail the lighting coils are much tougher because the are wound in thicker wire and only operate at low voltages. If they have failed you should be able to get them rewound locally. The winder counts the number of turns and winding orientation when they strip the old wire off and rewind with new wire of the same gauge.

If the coils are OK ( coil resistance should be around 1.0 ohm ) but look tatty with the external surface peeling you can carefully clean them ( avoid solvents as they will damage the insulation on the wire ) then paint the coil with Araldite ( two part epoxy resin ) the slow setting 90 minute type. I have done this on a number of Wipac SK55 generators and Miller Dynamo's where the external surface of the coil protective covering is starting to break up. After painting put the coils somewhere warm for a week for the Araldite to fully harden. I use the cupboard that contains my domestic hot water cylinder.

If you are thinking of using the bike on the road it is a good idea to change the electrics from a direct AC system to a DC system. The problem with direct lighting is that the voltage to the bulbs is uncontrolled and this causes the bulbs to blow regularly. Plus direct lighting does not allow you to run an effective and reliable rear brake light. When you brake to a stop the brake lamp goes to a feeble glow as the engine is at tick-over and the magneto has very little lighting output. With the conversion to DC you fit a small sealed battery which can usually be hidden in the toolbox. So that you do not exceed the pitiful output of the Villiers magneto lighting coils you use LED lamps. They give a nice bright light that can be seen by other road users instead of a dull glow. The only downside of LED lamps is that whilst the headlight is bright it does not light up the road as well as a conventional filament bulb.

On the Villiers direct lighting and early rectified lighting sets one end of each lighting coil is earthed so you cannot wire them to a modern electronic regulator rectifier. The earthed coil ends have to be disconnected from earth, insulated and can then be run to the electronic rectifier regulator to give full wave rectification and proper voltage control so that bulbs do not blow.

I have carried out this modification on my 1930 Villiers Mark X-A engine. The flywheel magneto on this engine was originally designed for a 4 volt lighting system but it is now 6 volt so that I can use available 6 volt LED lamps. The low wattage of the LED lamps allows me to run daylight running lights and fit an effective reliable brake light.

The 6 volt versions of the rectifier regulators are more difficult to find but they are available in the UK and presumably in the USA. In theory you can convert the Villiers magneto lighting coils to 12 volts but the problem is that the engine has to be revving like mad to charge the battery so the battery goes flat and you have no lighting.

Regards
Butty Bach


RR6V-1-Rev-5.pdf (393.87 KB)

I got a reply yesterday from Villers Services, they have a set of used coils for my 9D engine. I haven't ordered the lighting coils as of yet. I will check the coils later today and measure their resistance. Thanks for the tip. Dealing with these engines has an interesting learning curve to it. Is there a way for me to re-magnetize the flywheel? Villers offers that service but that would be very expensive to ship it to the UK and back.
I have ordered the BMS books for both the military and post war models of my James ML. They send it out as a PDF file so I should have it later today.

Thanks for all your help
Norton John

Hi Norton John

I am back from my long weekend at the Ariel Club Rally on the Welsh border. A brilliant event with some enjoyable but challenging riding in the Forest of Dean and Wye Valley. Twisty narrow lanes, plenty of loose gravel and grass growing in the middle of the road. Not easy riding conditions on a 1929 motorcycle with hand gear change, a rigid rear end and poor brakes. 

After looking at the photographs of your 9D lighting coils, they look as if they have been rewound in the past. Normally the coil is wound in lacquer finished copper wire and there is an external protective coating of lacquered paper or linen tape over the winding. The cross point screws also suggest that the lighting coils have been removed in the past because the original screws would have had slotted heads. See attached photo of an original 10D / 6E lighting coil.

This is not a problem if the coils have electrical continuity and are not internally shorted they will work OK. If the 6 off lighting coils are wired for direct lighting. The 4 off larger coils power the Headlamp and the 2 off smaller coils power the Tail-lamp. The Headlamp coils are wired with two coils wired in series and the two pairs wired in parallel. The two smaller Tail-lamp coils are wired in series. See attached wiring diagram for the six pole magneto taken from the B E Browning, 'The Villiers Engine' book.

Regards
Butty Bach.

Hi Norton John

I would not fancy working in 105°F heat. I have done it in the past when I was commissioning Packaged Boiler Houses for Tesco Superstores. First thing in the morning there was ice on the steel floor by late afternoon with the Boilers firing it could get up to 50°C ( 122°F ). This overheating was caused by the Monodraught Boiler flues that Tesco decided were a good idea. When the electronic controls started to fail due to the heat they changed back to conventional flues and ventilation louvres.

When you get back to more sensible temperatures and can work on your bike comfortably, please ask if you need any advice or information and I will do my best to help.

I have cleared a few jobs off my 'to do' list. I just have a Miller Dynamo to rebuild then I can get on with either my 1930 250cc Rex Acme Villiers V10-A or the 125cc BSA Bantam Sprint Special.

Attached is a photograph of an Ariel KHA Special that was at the Ariel Rally last weekend. There were quite a few interesting bikes at the event including a de-seamed Velocette LE Mk3, unfortunately I did not manage to get a photograph of it. The LE has a pressed steel body made on an American Lake Erie Press. The pressed steel mudguard halves are welded together on a raised seam. It is surprising how removing the seams and having a smooth finish changes the appearance but unfortunately not the performance.

Regards
Butty Bach