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Post by nortonjohn on May 22, 2023 11:18:11 GMT
Butty Bach, Your Ariel is Beautiful. Let us know how the Ariel Rally goes. With pictures of course.
I never had the chain for the James which started the thread. Did have a small 2" piece of the 415 chain and it fit the rear sprocket so that is why I thought that was what was needed. Time to go online and do some looking.
Thanks for your help with this.
Nortonjohn
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Post by nortonjohn on May 22, 2023 16:16:19 GMT
Butty Bach, I was able to cross reference the Reynold chain number 110 044 to a 420-chain size. So, that problem solved. I'm making a new rear axle so that issue is being taken care of. Next on my list is the correct spacers for the rear axle and in what order they go in? I will make new chain adjusters too. Always something!
Thanks to everyone who has and hopefully will help me with this project.
Norton John
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Post by buttybach1932 on May 23, 2023 17:07:54 GMT
Hi Norton John The 420 chain still has the smaller 0.305" diameters rollers as the 415 chain but it is wider between the inner plates. The Reynold 110 044 chain has 0.335" diameter rollers. 0.030" ( 0.762mm ) difference in roller diameter does not look much different visually, but the chain will not run correctly and damages the sprocket teeth. See attached item from Wemoto website. I have had personnel experience of the problem because I look after several BSA Bantams and a Triumph Tiger Cub that use the Reynold 110 044, 1/2" × 3/16" size chain. The size designation is a bit confusing. The 1/2" dimension is correct for the chain pitch but the 3/16" is a nominal dimension for the sprocket thickness. Unfortunately I cannot help you with the information on the wheel spacers and order of assembly as I do not have any detailed information on the James ML. I will have a word with one of the guys in the BTSC when we have a meeting tomorrow to see if he still has an ML. The Ariel Rally that I am attending is mid June and I want to give the bike a couple of test runs before the event. I have hopefully sorted out the carburation problems suffered on the last run and just need to have a play with the gearbox kickstart clock-spring cover and speedometer gearbox to see if I can cure a messy grease leak. The gearbox uses semi-fluid grease as a lubricant. Regards Butty Bach
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Post by nortonjohn on May 30, 2023 16:46:09 GMT
Hi Norton John The 420 chain still has the smaller 0.305" diameters rollers as the 415 chain but it is wider between the inner plates. The Reynold 110 044 chain has 0.335" diameter rollers. 0.030" ( 0.762mm ) difference in roller diameter does not look much different visually, but the chain will not run correctly and damages the sprocket teeth. See attached item from Wemoto website. I have had personnel experience of the problem because I look after several BSA Bantams and a Triumph Tiger Cub that use the Reynold 110 044, 1/2" × 3/16" size chain. The size designation is a bit confusing. The 1/2" dimension is correct for the chain pitch but the 3/16" is a nominal dimension for the sprocket thickness. Unfortunately I cannot help you with the information on the wheel spacers and order of assembly as I do not have any detailed information on the James ML. I will have a word with one of the guys in the BTSC when we have a meeting tomorrow to see if he still has an ML. The Ariel Rally that I am attending is mid June and I want to give the bike a couple of test runs before the event. I have hopefully sorted out the carburation problems suffered on the last run and just need to have a play with the gearbox kickstart clock-spring cover and speedometer gearbox to see if I can cure a messy grease leak. The gearbox uses semi-fluid grease as a lubricant. View AttachmentView AttachmentRegards Butty Bach I can see by the chary you sent me, thank you very much for that, that there is no direct replacement for 110 044 chain so Reynold Chain is what I need. Well, that is disappointing but not unexpected. How good are the BMS copies of the factory shop books? Having been spoiled by Clymer and Haynes shop manuals I can only hope.
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Post by nortonjohn on Jun 1, 2023 17:55:50 GMT
I was just reading in the March & April copy of the Independent about the "Year of the James". Very interesting and informative. I didn't know the Berliner had imported the ML125's to Texas. Researching Berliner, it said that they didn't start business until 1951. If so, then the ML James must have been sitting in a warehouse for several years before being shipped to the US. I would love to know more about this.
Cheers Norton John
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Post by buttybach1932 on Jun 12, 2023 13:48:22 GMT
Hi Norton John I spoke to one of our local BTSC section members who I thought had a James ML, but I was wrong the bike he had was a Royal Enfield Flying Flea. A similar type of bike but completely different and fitted with Royal Enfield's own engine gearbox unit. James history is very difficult because information is sparse. The factory burnt down in 1920 and no machines were built until 1922. In 1940 the factory was destroyed by bombing and most of the factory records were lost. When Associated Motorcycles who owned James and Francis Barnett went into liquidation in 1966 most of the paperwork was destroyed. The ML was based on the pre-war 1939 K17 and 1940 L17 both of these models used the 122cc Villiers 9D engine gearbox unit. A 98cc ( 50mm bore × 50mm stroke ) version of the 9D engine was fitted to some export models. The ML ( Military Lightweight ) was introduced during the war and was known as 'The Clockwork Mouse'. Post war the ML was produced as a civilian machine in 1946, 47 and 48. In 1949 the ML was replaced by the 122cc Cadet, this used the new Villiers 10D engine with bolt on gearbox. The VIII-D and 9D engines were part of a range of engines that Villiers introduced in the 1930s fitted with flat flat topped pistons and used Villiers own design of scavenging system with two exhaust ports on opposite sides of the cylinder and four transfer ports. In 1929 Dr Schnuerle patented his 'schnuerle loop' scavenging system that was originally designed for two stroke diesels. The design was taken up by DKW and proved to be very successful. As it was a patented design Villiers could not use it so they developed there own version. Post-War they were obviously not concerned with infringing German patents and the new Villers engine range including the 10D and 6E engines used 'schnuerle loop' scavenging. So either it worked better than the Villiers design or it made the engines easier and cheaper to manufacture. RegardsButty Bach
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Post by nortonjohn on Jun 15, 2023 16:04:19 GMT
Hi Norton John I spoke to one of our local BTSC section members who I thought had a James ML, but I was wrong the bike he had was a Royal Enfield Flying Flea. A similar type of bike but completely different and fitted with Royal Enfield's own engine gearbox unit. James history is very difficult because information is sparse. The factory burnt down in 1920 and no machines were built until 1922. In 1940 the factory was destroyed by bombing and most of the factory records were lost. When Associated Motorcycles who owned James and Francis Barnett went into liquidation in 1966 most of the paperwork was destroyed. The ML was based on the pre-war 1939 K17 and 1940 L17 both of these models used the 122cc Villiers 9D engine gearbox unit. A 98cc ( 50mm bore × 50mm stroke ) version of the 9D engine was fitted to some export models. The ML ( Military Lightweight ) was introduced during the war and was known as 'The Clockwork Mouse'. Post war the ML was produced as a civilian machine in 1946, 47 and 48. In 1949 the ML was replaced by the 122cc Cadet, this used the new Villiers 10D engine with bolt on gearbox. The VIII-D and 9D engines were part of a range of engines that Villiers introduced in the 1930s fitted with flat flat topped pistons and used Villiers own design of scavenging system with two exhaust ports on opposite sides of the cylinder and four transfer ports. In 1929 Dr Schnuerle patented his 'schnuerle loop' scavenging system that was originally designed for two stroke diesels. The design was taken up by DKW and proved to be very successful. As it was a patented design Villiers could not use it so they developed there own version. Post-War they were obviously not concerned with infringing German patents and the new Villers engine range including the 10D and 6E engines used 'schnuerle loop' scavenging. So either it worked better than the Villiers design or it made the engines easier and cheaper to manufacture. RegardsButty Bach View Attachment
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Post by nortonjohn on Jun 15, 2023 16:22:43 GMT
Hi Norton John I spoke to one of our local BTSC section members who I thought had a James ML, but I was wrong the bike he had was a Royal Enfield Flying Flea. A similar type of bike but completely different and fitted with Royal Enfield's own engine gearbox unit. James history is very difficult because information is sparse. The factory burnt down in 1920 and no machines were built until 1922. In 1940 the factory was destroyed by bombing and most of the factory records were lost. When Associated Motorcycles who owned James and Francis Barnett went into liquidation in 1966 most of the paperwork was destroyed. The ML was based on the pre-war 1939 K17 and 1940 L17 both of these models used the 122cc Villiers 9D engine gearbox unit. A 98cc ( 50mm bore × 50mm stroke ) version of the 9D engine was fitted to some export models. The ML ( Military Lightweight ) was introduced during the war and was known as 'The Clockwork Mouse'. Post war the ML was produced as a civilian machine in 1946, 47 and 48. In 1949 the ML was replaced by the 122cc Cadet, this used the new Villiers 10D engine with bolt on gearbox. The VIII-D and 9D engines were part of a range of engines that Villiers introduced in the 1930s fitted with flat flat topped pistons and used Villiers own design of scavenging system with two exhaust ports on opposite sides of the cylinder and four transfer ports. In 1929 Dr Schnuerle patented his 'schnuerle loop' scavenging system that was originally designed for two stroke diesels. The design was taken up by DKW and proved to be very successful. As it was a patented design Villiers could not use it so they developed there own version. Post-War they were obviously not concerned with infringing German patents and the new Villers engine range including the 10D and 6E engines used 'schnuerle loop' scavenging. So either it worked better than the Villiers design or it made the engines easier and cheaper to manufacture. RegardsButty Bach View AttachmentButty Bach, I have a friend in New Mexico who just picked up a Flying Flea. Hope to get over there and check it out. It's amazing how these bikes are coming out of the woodwork. He says there is another one in the Albuquerque area that is available, My workshop is getting a bit full so I will take a pass. Like I need another project! I'm putting together a list of parts that I need from Villers Services. The seller "said" that the engine had just been rebuilt. I'm beginning to doubt that, and I am going to take it apart and examine all the parts. No reason to go through all this work just to have something fail and cause me to go back to square one. Reguards John
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Post by nortonjohn on Jul 10, 2023 17:16:55 GMT
Been out in the workshop working on the James and playing with the front brakes. Didn't have any parts for the original set up so I am wondering how the "spring box" works and why are they there. If anyone has close up pictures of the "spring box", I would love to see them. Wondering if I should try and make one?
Regards John
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Post by buttybach1932 on Jul 12, 2023 17:32:09 GMT
Hi Norton John I am confused by your question, what do you mean by 'spring box'. As I have said previously the James ML is not a model that I am familiar with but I would imagine that the hubs and brakes were probably manufactured by British Hub Co. They made a lot of pressed steel hubs and brakes for British lightweight motorcycles so other small British manufacturers would have used the same brake. This may be a problem that Superlux51 can help you with, because the James Superlux and Comet models used a 4" diameter brake that was probably the same or very similar to the one fitted to the ML. Sunday 23rd July is VMCC Founders Day and there is a reasonable chance that there will be a James ML at the event. If there is I will take some photographs for you and get the owners contact details. The attached photograph is of a James ML.56 spanner that probably came out of the toolkit of my dads 1951 James Captain. Unfortunately it has been abused ( not by me ) so it is not much good because the jaws are not parallel. Regards Butty Bach
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Post by nortonjohn on Jul 14, 2023 15:16:39 GMT
I can understand your confusion about the spring box. Coming off of the front brake there is a rod that runs up to the spring box. The cable from the front brake lever goes down to the spring box and is somehow connected to the rod. Not having any of those parts and no good illustrations it makes it hard to explain. I'm sure it made sense to the engineers at James at the time, just not to me. Unless it was to dampen the front brake for some reason? It's not like those 4" brake were going to do anything but slow you down. I'm sure I will have to make a work around for this.
Cheers John
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Post by 1951superlux on Jul 15, 2023 7:35:37 GMT
I think it's the same as the connector that you get on tandems' back brakes. The spring is just a return spring and doesn't play any part in connecting the cable to the rod. Assuming it's the same. there's a cylindrical lump of steel - about 3/8" dia - that threads onto the upper end of the brake rod. The upper end of this cylinder has a slot & a transverse hole to take a ball nipple on the end of the cable. The tube this slides in closes to a 1/4" hole at the top and a long-ish cable adjuster goes in here. The spring isn't a strong one - it just stops the cable going slack when you've go the wheel out. The autocycle didn't have this - just a long cable all the way to the brake - but then, they had to be built to a price.
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Post by buttybach1932 on Jul 18, 2023 12:14:23 GMT
Hi Norton John I am back from my long weekend break. Now that I understand what information that you need I can help you because my 1929 Ariel has the same arrangement with a cable to rod front brake operating mechanism. Attached is a dimensioned photograph of the parts on my Ariel. I needed to take it apart because I have to sort out the dimensions for a new front brake cable to suit some new period looking solid stainless steel 1" front brake and clutch levers. The bike should have an inverted front brake lever, but I cannot get on with it, so I fitted a 1960s pressed steel Triumph lever that fits the 1" diameter handlebars, it works OK but it does not look correct. As stated on the drawing my front brake cable has a ¼" brass barrel nipple that has been filed up to suit instead of the ball nipple that 1951superlux describes in his post. The filed up barrel nipple is probably a bit stronger and less likely to spread the nipple holder at the split, because the centre of the split has a 0.156" diameter hole where they drilled the tapping hole right through for the 3/16" BSF brake rod thread. To be honest I do not like the cable to rod connection idea. If it is not set up correctly it can lock solid before the brake is fully applied. It is possible for the spring to go coil bound if the spring has too many coils or the spring wire gauge is too heavy. I hope that you are managing to cope with the extreme heat. We are having a cloudy and wet spell so my outdoor tomatoes are not ripening, but it is good for my runner and french dwarf beans. Regards Butty Bach
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Post by 1951superlux on Jul 18, 2023 19:32:10 GMT
To be honest I do not like the cable to rod connection idea. If it is not set up correctly it can lock solid before the brake is fully applied. It is possible for the spring to go coil bound if the spring has too many coils or the spring wire gauge is too heavy. That's true - and to avoid that you should always use the nut at the bottom of the rod to adjust the brake; the top adjuster is just there to aid fitting the cable. I think the James version is slightly different in that the bracket clamps the tube rather than butting against the end. The Ariel version would have been purpose-made; James would have just used the tandem bicycle bits.
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Post by buttybach1932 on Jul 24, 2023 9:47:11 GMT
Hi Norton John At VMCC Founders Day yesterday a friend had a James ML for sale on his pitch so I took some photographs. The photographs show the front brake operating mechanism. Please note that the brake rod is badly bent where it passes through the brake arm trunnion bush. From the photographs and the Ariel dimensions that I sent in a previous post you should be able to adjust the dimensions to suit your bike. Regards Butty Bach
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